Below is the numerous emails I got a while back from the Sea Doo Forum guys. It was a constant runaround that finally led to me being banned from their site. Iím heartbroken! Luckily the PWCtoday.com Sea Doo Forum has been around for years helping people out. That Sea Doo Forum is free to all and the members there are some of the most knowledgeable Iíve ever run across. At the top of the site you can even download almost any Sea Doo manual for free! When I get the time, I also put in my 0.02 there as well and have been for years with no complaints from their mods. I even can offer their members a part occasionally for my time and effort. What a concept!

Lately Iíve also been teaching myself about board design and operation so I also may be starting my own Sea Doo Forum soon. If I do, youíll know about it since this page is on Googles first page as of this writing and hereís where Iíll post my forum!


On 11/03/2008
"I'd also like to say thanks for your web site. As a moderator, I use your site for reference when I am trying to help someone and I don't quite have enough info. Or, I have actually used a HTTP link in my forum for users to look for other hard to find parts that you provide a service for, including the used parts section. Your site is easy to navigate and I just wanted to voice my appreciation for being available to Seadoo users."


On 11/25/2008 - This is the start of many long and involved emails...
"We, here in the forum, use seadoosource.com for information and parts on a regular basis. I'm sure, some of your business and use of your site for research and information is passed on to our users by myself and other members. Your website is a very well known name to our users along with xxx. We do have our own parts supply distributor.
At the moment, I have placed a ban on your username and awaiting contact with our administration staff. Please be patient until we come up with a solution to this issue."


Again on 11/25/2008
"I will also acknowledge now, that I have only worked with Rotax engines for 3 years. Your experience and mechanical knowledge is far above mine, I'm sure. My strongest work is the 787 engine. Because the 951 on down is similar in design, I work with them too."

Iíve worked with them for 17 years.

"In the forum, we (moderators) have an un-written rule that if a post was made in advising a member on a problem, that isn't entirely correct, we send them a PM with better info so they can make the corrections verses posting behind them. I think this builds strength in the forum and doesn't embarrass anyone for being in accurate."

Youíre kidding right?!! The whole goal of the forum is to inform people but you donít want wrong info to be corrected in public? That makes sense!


On 11/26/2008
"Have at the forum for helping members. I'm looking forward to reading your posts. But please, don't dig up old posts. I am trying to close all posts older than one month."

You donít want to help people with problems that are over a month old and havenít been solved yet? That makes sense too!

"It's great having a mechanic on board with your mechanical knowledge. Thanks for working with the forum."

Iíve read some of the "tech" answers people gave to members. You definitely need a good mechanic onboard!


On 11/30/2008
"It seems there has been some major discussions in our moderator section on your username and hyper link. I'll keep this as short as possible.
Under normal conditions, your hyper link, username and signature would not be allowed in the forum; it falls under TOS violation as a conflict of our advertising policy. Your username will be changed to Seadoosource without the dot com and your signatures will also be changed.
You may PM members who have a problem that you can solve and solicit them parts from your site, that we do not stock in the HLSM parts list. Personally, I would have liked to see you sign up with a standard username, then make it seem you were a satisified customer that was sending someone to Seadoosource from personal experience. As I said before, if you use our search engine and type in "Seadoosource", you'll see several references to your site. We're already linking you a customer base.
I hope you understand this is something we are trying to work with, that is beneficial to both businesses. The issue of members seeing your links when they know we have restricted others, is a contradiction and diminishes the integrity of our rules."

I originally used seadoosource.com as my username. I didnít really think about it when setting up and didnít really read the long TOS section since I donít have that kind of time. Instead of just changing it, they send longwinded emails and have numerous discussions. Itís not that big a deal. Just change it!


On 12/05/2008
"I thought xxx (mod) removed your link to your emails, since you prefer not to get PM's. I edited your profile page to include your email address info@seadoosource.com. I noticed, it has been removed again. Did you do this? If so, I gusee thats your choice. But if one of the staff did iit, you can let me know and I'll take care of it."

I didnít take my email address out. They did. Once again, itís not a big deal but I keep getting all these emails! The whole time Iím helping people out free of charge and I get no business or profit from doing it. Although I donít mind spending that much time helping out, the main reason I can do it now is I have lots of free time now and am bored!


The whole time Iím getting all these emails Iím helping out on the board and post well over 100 posts solving problems and offering suggestions. Occasionally I also correct the mods when they tell someone the wrong thing. Although I was asked to do it in a PM, if I did that others who read the board wouldnít know what they said was wrong. So no PMs to the mods when they screw up. Thatís a rule I made and will stick to no matter what board I post on!


On 12/15/2008

Today I changed my signature to give a little "who am I" since the "profile" section of their site doesnít have a place for that. I also mentioned I feature the sea doo forums link on my site and since itís #1 on Google (search "sea doo parts" and Iím the first of the non sponsored links), that should help the forum as well.


On 12/16/2008 - What was I thinking telling people who I am?!!
"I see you've changed your signature and in the past, you've always pointed out your status on the google search engine.
I've posted this info in our Moderator area, where members, premium and junior alike have no access. But, since you tend to bring this up, let me put in my two cents.
When you first showed up in the forum, I googled one word, "Seadoo". In doing this, our site was #4, only behind BRP, Seadoo.com and Sea-doo.net. Your site wasn't listed on the pages up to 4, I quit looking after that. Then, I googled "seadoo forum". Where youíll find us #1. When I google "Seadoo parts".....your 4th from the top, Seadoopartsnation.com, ebay and Cheapcycleparts/seadoo.com. So, even there, your not exactly #1."

As mentioned previously above, if you Google "sea doo parts" Iím the #1 non sponsored link and right below the people who pay to be on Google.

"I haven't figured out why you are spending so much time in the forum since you actually own a business, unless you have an ulterior motive, which I believe to be exposure. I have noticed, since you have been here, it has increased your visibility in the google search engine. "

As mentioned previously above as well, I have lots of free time now so am bored. Being on the forum doesnít increase anything on Google either. Thatís not how that works.

"You state that your not a fan of PMís, or don't have enough time to read them, yet you have members send you email "behind the scenes". This, like xxx has pointed out, is not what a forum is about. We all put the marbles on the table for everyone to play the game."

My signature said "I donít like PMs so email me if you need to contact me". The reason I donít like PMs is I donít like logging into a website to read something that should just show up on my computer when I click "check mail"! Plus I like a record of what I say to someone stored on my home computer in case I have to refer back to it.

"There have been several members voice their concern and complaint about your being in the forum. The mods have all expressed concern, even myself, that you are causing issues in what was once a happy place for member to congregate. I've explored your site thoroughly and even your bio. I will never say youíre a man that doesnít know the Rotax engine, inside and out. But your also a business man and I feel (gut instinct) that this idea of being in the forum is only profitable to you. I personally donít like that. No one in this forum is paid but the Administrators. Youíve made several statements, that I feel like, are the lines a salesman pitches when heís trying to drum up more business. We added "Seadoowarehouse.com" this year so, we are doing well with our forum and parts sales. Your tiny link to our forum, just above a link that says, "free manuals," is not something I approve of."

Iím sure there are members and mods who werenít happy with some of my posts. Thatís because they provided inaccurate info to people who have problems and I called them on it! As for a "salesman pitch", although I do make a little off selling parts, I rarely make money off helping out on those boards! Finally, sure you donít approve of "Free Manuals" since you guys charge people for them. Charging for something thatís free on the internet. Why didnít I think of that?!

"I have always been an honest man and donít ever plan to stop saying whatís on my mind. Both Administrators know how I feel about you being in the forum. Iím dead set against it. Weíve never let an owner or manager of a business that is affiliated with the same products as us and I have yet to figure out why they have agreed to allow you to stay."

They carry oem parts and charge retail on them. I buy out dealers and charge less than retail. Although I have quite a few parts on hand, if I donít stock something I refer people to HLSM based sites. I was happy to refer people to their site for parts but they had no interest in that. Instead, they donít want me sending parts sales to them and their opinion is profit is more important than me helping their members with tech issues. That doesnít make too much sense.

"They do not know of my intentions but as of this moment, you are banned from our forum. I do not like your writing style, itís filled with sarcasm and arrogance. Other members who have complained, say the same thing. These members are those that have been here for about a year and donít like the direction the forum is taking. Thatís why, Iím making the effort to make this what it once was. A place where members can congregate and talk about their problems without the sales pitch that, "hey, shoot me an email, I can hook you up" kinda replies."

As I pointed out other places on my site, I may sometimes come off as being "arrogant" or a "know it all" but Iíve been in and around Sea Doo watercraft since the early '90s so have strong opinions on things. Iíve been living and breathing nothing but Sea Doo watercraft for years so when I state an opinion on things, itís based on what Iíve learned over those many years. Plus I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering that taught me to write in a "matter of fact" way. Finally, nowhere on that forum and at no time did I ever make a sales pitch!

"If you have any complaints, you can seek out the Administrators of our forum and ask for an appeal of my "banning" you. But I wonít have anything to do with your being in "my" forum. My as in, the pride I have for the work we do.
Sorry to be so blunt, but you have other pokers in the fire that can be attended to. Itís not like not being here is going to hurt your business in anyway.
It also does not mean that when there is an issue that Iíve hyper linked members to in the past (Seadoosource), will change, it wonít. Your site is a great place to learn or find things we donít offer but your advice in the forum is something I donít need anymore."

Heís definitely right I probably have better things to do but after you read all that, was it worth banning probably one of the most knowledgeable persons on the planet as far as Sea Doos are concerned? I would say "itís his loss" but it isnít. Itís his members who I helped since all my posts that told how to do or fix something were deleted once I was banned.

"Sorry for the long letter but I had to get this off my chest. If youíd like to remove our link from your home page, please do so at your convenience. With our #1 status under forums, I donít think itís needed.
I hope you donít take this personal, itís not meant that way. Iíve spoken to you when I had a problem in the past. You are always prompt and helpful. I just donít feel youíre an asset to our forum.
Please accept my apologies in your banning, but I feel it necessary for me to continue my happiness."

His happiness is the #1 concern on a Sea Doo Forum I guess. Not sure how I can be "prompt and helpful" and at the same time not an asset. Anyway, I didnít take it personal but I have to say the way these guys choose to "help" their members is a bit scary!
Lastly, all of what was shown above are excerpts from actual emails I received. I did remove some names to protect the guilty though.

If youíre looking for a good Sea Doo Forum, the PWCtoday.com Sea Doo Forum has been around for years helping people out. That Sea Doo Forum is free to all and the members there are some of the most knowledgeable Iíve ever run across. At the top of the site you can even download almost any Sea Doo manual for free! so check 'em out!


www.SeaDooSource.com

Visitors - since 12/2008